The good people at Reverse Magazine in France did a 14 page spread interview about my photography. It’s strictly a basketball magazine but they were also curious about my celebrity athlete, barbershop, and America series. The interview is all in French obviously, so the English version is posted below.
Check them out on line at Basketsession.com
What made you want to become a photographer in the first place?
Certainly wasn't common sense. Photography was always a hobby as a kid. Even going on trips with friends in high school I would buy a grip of disposable cameras to document everything and couldn't wait to pick them up from the pharmacy when we got back. That desire to take pictures never went away as I got older. During and after college there was a long string of meaningless jobs that made me miserable. And somewhere in that misery it became obvious that photography was the only thing I loved doing and the only way I'd ever want to earn a living.
What was the first picture that really made an impression on you?
Really hard to say. Seems like I've been ingesting photographs since my grandparents got me a subscription to Sports Illustrated at 5, but William Eggleston's "Guide" was the first time a book of photographs ever made me say "what the fuck" out loud.
Are there other photographers that have had a major influence on you?
There isn't enough room in this article to list all the photographers that have and continue to influence me. In fact, it wasn't until developing a serious photo book habit that I feel like my photography started to take hold. Before then it was sort of like I was making images I thought people/brands/magazines wanted to see. If you want some names though, here are a few (in no particular order): William Eggleston, Joel Sternfeld, Stephen Shore, Walter Iooss Jr, William Albert Allard, David Allen Harvey, Fred Herzog, Dan Winters, Alex Webb, Andy Anderson, Martin Parr, Gary Land, Saul Lieter, Dennis Hopper, Michael Muller, Neil Leifer, and on and on and on.
Where does your love for basketball come from?
My mother and her parents. They are from Boston and we used to spend a lot of time at their house growing up. The only TV they had was one with a rabbit ears antenna, so in order to actually watch the Celtics games, you had to spend the whole time dancing with the antenna. Eventually we gave up and just listened to all the games on the radio. Looking back it was such an incredible experience that I'm really grateful for.
How did the whole "American Backcourts" idea come about?
This is a continuation of the last answer. In Boston and my grandparents house at that time (mid to late 80's), there was no way around being a Larry Bird fan. He was it. The admiration that whole city had for him rubbed off on me and my parents got me his book "Drive" for Christmas one year. I'd be lying if I said I could remember a lot of the writing, but there was a picture inside of his childhood hoop that blew me away. I just didn't understand. How could "Larry Legend" get his start on a broken down old hoop barely hanging on a barn in a dirt driveway in the middle of Indiana? As a kid from a small town in upstate New York I always thought that the pros only came from the inner cities and were afforded all the best of everything. So that picture, to me, told a better story than the writing ever could. As time went on and travels continued, I kept wondering about other hoops and the stories they could tell.
How did you go about finding all those hoops and courts?
There was no blueprint whatsoever. In the beginning I wasn't even looking. They just started to present themselves during cross country road trips and I would make pictures of them but never really thought much of it. Years went by and it struck me that there was this body of work that had unintentionally built itself. After digesting a lot of the photos I started to get obsessed and it eventually became The focus of my road trips. 10 years later and I'm still sniffing them out. Doubt this project will ever stop.
What's crazy is that, even though there are no players in your pictures, they tell a story. Was that the whole idea?
Yes. Exactly. There's a lot to be said for photographs of courts filled with people, but there are only a small handful of photographers who shoot that really well, and I certainly wasn't focused on that aspect. The hope is that my images of empty courts are strong enough to make you think about what's happened there. Who has played on that court? Was there another Larry Bird like story that started there? Maybe they remind you of a court you played on as a kid? Or they just make you want to get back out and play if it's been too long since you last picked up a ball. One thing I love about the game is that it doesn't matter how far you went in your career. You can still have fun playing. So those "backcourts" are such a special place because they house so many great memories and experiences that people can carry with them throughout their whole life.
What was the most surprising hoop you found?
Don't know how to answer that as they have all come with their own unique experiences. The one in Idaho filled with deer skulls is up there though. Probably won't find another like that in my life.
You also had the opportunity to shoot Kobe, what was that experience like?
Was lucky to shoot him twice and both were great experiences. During the short time I was able to spend with him I learned that he was a professional in all aspects of his life. Meaning that he strove to do the very best he could do no matter what the task was. He took it seriously and wanted to be great at it. The first time was probably the most nervous I've ever been on a shoot, but it turned out well. Something worth noting is that he showed up ALONE for both shoots. Arrived on his helicopter, but he was alone. One aspect of commercial photography of famous athletes that really turns me off is that they are always surrounded by a squad of people trying to protect and speak for them. Which means that there are far too many opinions and egos in a room already filled with opinions and egos. It's very harmful to the process of a photoshoot. So to have someone like Kobe show up alone was refreshing. My experience is that the athletes are usually very cool and open to collaboration, but the people surrounding them don't allow for that to happen. Which makes for a sub par final product. Two heads are better than one. So if you can get the athlete personally involved, then the outcome will always be better. Kobe was very willing to talk.
Was it how you envisioned it to be?
One of the best lessons to be learned as a photographer is that it's never how you envision it to be. Have a well thought out plan, but also don't be so stubborn or egotistical to see that the immediate circumstances have presented a better (different) way. That doesn't have as much to do with the Kobe shoots as it does with my general attitude toward life and one I would like to have adopted 15 years ago.
When it comes to athletes and sports, you seem to be drawn to the most extreme ones. Whether it's weightlifters and cross fit specialists, MMA fighters like Michael Chandler or mountain climbers and snowboarders. Why is that?
There are a lot of factors at play on this one. It partially has to do with a previous answer about being turned off by the bullshit involved with celebrity. I still do it and enjoy some of it, but have also really grown to appreciate real people that like to work their ass off. Often with a celebrity athlete you're lucky to get 5 minutes with them. So you're waiting around all day just to get 5 minutes. I'm old enough now to not give a shit about famous people. I respect the hell out of them for who they are and what they've accomplished, but it's just not my style any more to build a career photographing them for 5 minutes. There's this thought that keeps coming to my head about photography - "at the end of the day if I'm not exhausted, bloody, or tired, then chances are the shoot wasn't that much fun." So I want to be right in there with people as they are doing what they do. Whether that's a professional athlete, MMA fighter, fly fisherman, hunter, snowboarder, etc. I want to work my ass off to document the experience they are living. 5 minutes of fake isn't worth fuckall. A while back I did a shoot with Canelo Alvarerz for Everlast. He was on the rise then, but not nearly as successful as he is now. We had a lot of time with him and everything was set up and ready to go before he arrived. His English was not good and my Spanish is even worse, but we could communicate well enough. So I explained what I wanted him to do for the photos and he immediately responded that "I am not an actor". He had no interest in fake punches on a heavy bag. All he knows is how to go 100%. So he did and it shows in the photos because he is actually working. Love him for that. And to this day he's still the most physically intimidating person I've ever shot. Shaq is what, 7'2"? Canelo is 5'9', but the sound of his gloves hitting the bag was like a jackhammer going into concrete. There's a realness to photographs when you are shooting someone that is fully engaged as opposed to faking it for the camera. The real thing wins every time.
How did you get to work with someone like Kirstie Ennis? What did you take from that experience?
That was a fantastic experience and Kirstie is such an inspirational human. Got hired by an agency for a GNC shoot in collaboration with the Unbreakable Gym in Hollywood. The focus was military veterans that are members of the gym who use physical fitness/training as a means to overcome the mental (and physical) trauma caused by war. For anyone who doesn't know Kirstie's story, please look her up. She's a champ. I think the entire crew left the shoot that day so inspired and grateful after hearing her and all the other vets spill their guts to the camera. Listening to these Alphas talk about how broken they were, the emotional pain they went through, and ultimately how they built themselves up afterward, was really special. We live in a world now where everyone wants to paint a perfect picture of their lives. Instagram has a lot to do with that. Either way, people don't want to show or talk about what's wrong. They just want to take pictures of themselves drinking on the beach in some exotic location to show how awesome their life is. It's all bullshit though. Kirstie and the other vets threw it right out there for everybody to hear and see.
You also did two other really interesting projects. One with Nick Ansom ("Survival Hoops") and the other being a book about barbershops ("Barbershops Of America"). How did those come about?
Personal projects are the greatest thing any photographer can do for themselves. I learned a long time ago that it's crucial to spend as much (if not more) time on your personal projects as it is on the commercial work. People can see your heart in the personal work, which organically connects you with like minded people. That's exactly what happened with Nick. He's a rad cat. Loves ball. We were introduced by a mutual friend - Dan Peterson of Project Backboard - another guy doing awesome things in the basketball world. For those who don't know, Nick is the leader and mind behind Venice Ball and the Hoop Bus. When COVID hit, all the hoops in Venice were locked up, so nobody could play basketball. Nick started making these beautiful hoops completely out of junk and hung them up all over the alleyways in Venice for people to ball on. It's a very unique piece of basketball culture (and art) that I hope will be remembered for a long time through the photographs we made together.
As for Barbershops of America, that's another personal project still going after 10 years. Loved them since I was a kid. Saw early on that they are a special place for guys to hang out, an integral piece of the communities they are in, and most importantly, a cherished but overlooked piece of American culture. The old traditional shops are quickly going away as the barbers pass on, retire, or get kicked out of their shops by a landlord making way for a higher paying tenant. That's really sad to me. There is no way to replicate a business that's been operating in the same shop for 50+ years. Nor can you put a value on the friendships/relationships that have been built in a place like that. So I set out to document as many as possible before they disappeared. 3 years later I had done so in all 50 states of the USA and continue it today. That project has led to some many great relationships with people and brands all over the country.
What is so special about barbershops?
What isn't special about barbershops? Unfortunately now there are as many new barbershops as there are Starbucks. Most of them are chop shops that will go away in quick order when the owners realize you can't just open the doors and expect to make a quick buck without actually caring about your customers. Real barbershops are about far more than a haircut. Leaving looking good is almost a bonus. The experience you get at a real shop is something you can't get anywhere else in the world. The laughter. The smells. The people. That's what matters. The barbershop is a place you go alone or with friends to see a guy who has become your friend after years and years of service. You know each other well and look forward to each subsequent visit. It's a place of comfort. You know that you're free to say what you wish during your 45 minutes in the chair. Or you can just sit on the side and drink a beer, not ever getting your haircut. Everybody is equal in the barbershop. Doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or a broke college student. Everybody gets treated the same. The barbershop is a great equalizer.
Do you feel like, in some way, you're telling America's story through your work?
Guess I'd have to agree with that. Although the concept only registered in the last year or two. I love America and am extremely lucky to see it in a way that most won't. 30k-40k miles a year on the road for 10 years will give you a whole new appreciation for a country and the people you share it with. Hopefully I can get added to that list of influential American photographers one day because of the way I've presented it.
You've travelled all around America, what has been the most interesting or the most enlightening trip so far?
That's a really hard thought to even wrap my head around. The experience as a whole is something I'm still trying to make sense of. Learning in the traditional way of schooling is something I've never been good at. Horrible actually. The road has been a great teacher though. If I were better with words, I'd make it a life goal to use them to explain all I've learned out there so that others could also learn from it. Overall though, it's that people are for the most part, good. All the preconceived ideas and stigmas you have about the different parts of America are probably equally wrong as they are right. Are there shitty people out there? Absolutely. Tons of them. But there are a lot more good people than there are bad. And most of those people are happy to have you, help you, or just to chat for a few minutes. Travel's great gift is its ability to change you. Before all my roadtrips, I thought that the "locals" would run me out of town with guns and burning torches. That's a bit dramatic, but you get the point. My experience has been the exact opposite, minus a few shady encounters. If you're good to people, then most of them will be good to you. Doesn't matter where you're from. If you're a Snake Oil salesman, then you're going to get treated like one. Last week I had a conversation with a couple buddies in Colorado about Texans. They are always complaining about how loud, rude, and arrogant the Texans are that they encounter in Colorado. In my opinion, that's a classic case of some bad apples ruining it for everybody else. Texas has a bad reputation for exactly what my buddies described and I won't deny that those people exist. However, Texas has grown to be one of my favorite places in the country to visit and photograph because of the people/culture. I've spent a lot of time in the small towns and country of Texas, and can say that the people are some of the warmest, most welcoming, and helpful I've ever met. This past July I was on the road headed back to Cape Cod to visit family and went through Texas to get my fix of BBQ, while also looking out for hoops to photograph. A wrong turn put me on the side street of a high school gymnasium with an open door. I had no intention of photographing an indoor basketball court but took it as a sign. Went in and introduced myself to the guy inside who was coaching a couple kids. This was a Sunday on a holiday weekend. After explaining what I do, he invited me (and my dog Mojo) right in. Showed me around. Took us to the big gym where the games are played, turned on the lights and scoreboard, and left me alone to photograph the place for as long as I wanted. Afterward he brought Mojo and I into his office where he shared boat loads of information about all the oldest and historical highschool basketball gyms within a two hour radius, gave me some of their teams branded clothing, and sent me on my way with his phone number to call if I ever needed anything else. En route to the BBQ joint I stopped at one of the gyms he recommended. It was closed and the campus was deserted. After some searching I found a lady working in the bus garage and told her what I was trying to do. She stopped working to call everyone in her cell phone that could possibly get me into the gym. It didn't work, but she sure tried. About 100 miles later I found a hoop attached to a tree in someone's front yard in the middle of nowhere so I stopped and asked permission to photograph it. The front door was open. Not unlocked. Wide open. A woman came to the door and was happy to oblige. Moments later I was outside making pictures and saw her drive away. Front door was still wide open, and from all I could tell, nobody else was home. Not another person for miles and miles. That's Texas. That's America.
Not sure if that really answers your question. If not, I'd have to say the cumulative experience is what it's all about. Not any individual trip.
Who's the person or the event that you would dream of shooting?
That list is even longer than the one of photographers who have influenced me, but I don't have a lot of interest in just making a portrait of someone. I'd rather hang out with a person or people for an extended period of time to tell their story or the story of something specific going on in their life. Fly on the wall kind of stuff that takes the viewer behind the scenes into real life, not just what you see on TV. Near the top of the list of dream events to photograph is the Iditarod in Alaska. The whole thing from start to finish. "Barbershops of the World" is also a dream. In the people category, I'd love to hang out with a number of NBA guys as a fly on the wall, but don't have anyone specific right now. Maybe a single player or team for the duration of an entire season. The writer Hunter S. Thompson would have been great to shoot like that, but he's gone already. Actually Sturgill Simpson would be my top choice. He's such a talented musician with a brutally honest attitude toward the music industry and life in general. He's not afraid to call out all the scumbag executives that try to take advantage of musicians and artists. A top tier bull rider would be fun to shadow for an entire rodeo season. Those guys are interesting to me and they live a lifestyle unlike anyone else.
What is the most difficult thing to capture when shooting?
People as they are. The camera does weird things to people because they know they are being photographed so something in their head inevitably changes. You have to really work to get someone when their guard is down.
What is the picture that you're the most proud of?
There is no single picture, but I am very proud of being able to hang out and photograph my friends and later on turn those images into a check that pays bills or helps to support the next personal project. In 50 years hopefully I'm still making photographs that matter. Either way I know the celebrity shots made along the way won't mean anything to me, but the ones of friends and family will.
If you had to choose one picture (whether one of yours or somebody else's) to summarize what photography means to you, which one would it be and why?
There's a shot by William Albert Allard from the late 70's of a cowboy sitting alone at an old western bar in Nevada drinking a beer. Nobody else in the bar but him and there's a harsh late day light spilling in the open door. That one gets me every time for a lot of reasons. First because it's a beautifully gritty photograph. I'm enamored with those parts of the country and it shows this guy relaxing after a hard day's work of doing something that he loves. You can tell he's totally beat down but not unhappy. It's so American. He captured this piece of America that most people will never get to see or experience. That's why I love it. After typing that it makes me realize more of what I love about photography. Sharing experiences/places with people that are otherwise foreign and unreachable for them. Opening their eyes to something they probably know nothing about.
